Is there a limit on the storage of a Hu-card?

hu, cd, scd, acd, supergrafx discussions.
RegalSin
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Is there a limit on the storage of a Hu-card?

Post by RegalSin »

I was thinking about debuting my release on a card itself, rather then a CD. The card would have faster access, for one example.

Of course on a NES, there is bank switching, along with the SNES that has a simular method with 32-mbit roms.

I think I was reading on how a system card, divides itself by 512KB of space each, allowing more memory space.

Would it be nessecary to do so in storage? Does the Street Fighter card does so?
tomaitheous
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Re: Is there a limit on the storage of a Hu-card?

Post by tomaitheous »

8megabit without a mapper, 20megabit using SF2 mapper. Emulators don't support higher than 20megabit currently.
RegalSin
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Re: Is there a limit on the storage of a Hu-card?

Post by RegalSin »

Lets try to shortcut this now.

I could only assume there is emulators that could run the ISO files. Looking back, on PCE history. The PC engine used multiple disk emulator ( with really floppy disks and Hard drives ) to emulate a CD.

So what if the data being read is really a CD rom image. A HU-card that is being read as a CD-rom?
Imagine such a HU-card. With or without the need of a CD.

Just to go a little beyond, The CD-rom could be used to store the data like a .DLL file, including the regular sound data. It would be like the complete reverse. A rom that would load from Hardware, and then use the CD-rom for extra storage.
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Gravis
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Re: Is there a limit on the storage of a Hu-card?

Post by Gravis »

RegalSin wrote:So what if the data being read is really a CD rom image. A HU-card that is being read as a CD-rom?
no, there are fundamental differences between HU-card executables and HU-CD executables including boot code, memory addressing and more.
RegalSin wrote:Just to go a little beyond, The CD-rom could be used to store the data like a .DLL file, including the regular sound data.
DLLs are not used to store data, they are used to store executable code externally so that it can be used in multiple programs. however, it is already possible to have an executable and additional data (on a single track) that can be loaded when needed. however, when data is accessed, the audio tracks cannot be played.
RegalSin wrote:It would be like the complete reverse. A rom that would load from Hardware, and then use the CD-rom for extra storage.
seems like a lot of work for nothing.
RegalSin
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Re: Is there a limit on the storage of a Hu-card?

Post by RegalSin »

The point of loading from HU-card( PCB/ROM/ flash )

Think of it like this. The HU-card will be the main game, while the CD-rom stores media data like
sound, video, and imgs. Smiluar to the way Star Ocean on the SNES works. It is limited to 32mbits but there is extra storage that goes way beyond it's standard limit. In this case, the HU-card will be the main game and the CD will be the
media part. It could even be vice versa.

Making both hardware parts needed for game play Not just the CD part. However the cart will allways be the main game turning the CD into a random device.
Gravis wrote:DLLs are not used to store data, they are used to store executable code externally so that it can be used in multiple programs. however, it is already possible to have an executable and additional data (on a single track) that can be loaded when needed. however, when data is accessed, the audio tracks cannot be played.
.

Wait a second. I have been playing around with a PC Engine and have seen many games that plays the audio tracks while loading game data. Can you explain that? I have been reading the PCE has almost no RAM whatsoever, so all data is read from the direct source.

The CD music/sound plays without no interruptions whatsoever while data is being read or load. So it would be possible to have a third leg on board ( the HU-card ) that would read from as well.
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Nodtveidt
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Re: Is there a limit on the storage of a Hu-card?

Post by Nodtveidt »

RegalSin wrote:Wait a second. I have been playing around with a PC Engine and have seen many games that plays the audio tracks while loading game data. Can you explain that? I have been reading the PCE has almost no RAM whatsoever, so all data is read from the direct source.

The CD music/sound plays without no interruptions whatsoever while data is being read or load. So it would be possible to have a third leg on board ( the HU-card ) that would read from as well.
No you haven't. What you've heard is either PSG music (like Ys) or a looped ADPCM sample (like The Addams Family). It is physically impossible to play redbook audio while loading data from the CDROM. Furthermore, the PCE itself has almost no RAM, but the CDROM deck itself has its own RAM bank (64KB for system 2, and 256KB for system 3). That's what programs are loaded into from the CDROM.
RegalSin
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Re: Is there a limit on the storage of a Hu-card?

Post by RegalSin »

Then what would make it appear the MP3, WAV, etc Track is playing from the CD while at the same time the data is being
worked to load new data. That it is not MOD samples or anytthing of the sort. I am not talking about loading from a seperate data track. Honestly i barely notice the load times, and could hear the PC-engine working to load the next data while it is still
playing music.

We could allways assume, when a new screen is needed, the PC engine will pause the music. load the data. Then go back to playing the music. No differnt then a NES game. We could also assume the music is being played while in another screen.
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Gravis
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Re: Is there a limit on the storage of a Hu-card?

Post by Gravis »

RegalSin wrote:Then what would make it appear the MP3, WAV, etc Track is playing from the CD while at the same time the data is being
worked to load new data. That it is not MOD samples or anytthing of the sort. I am not talking about loading from a seperate data track. Honestly i barely notice the load times, and could hear the PC-engine working to load the next data while it is still
playing music.

We could allways assume, when a new screen is needed, the PC engine will pause the music. load the data. Then go back to playing the music. No differnt then a NES game. We could also assume the music is being played while in another screen.
  1. mpeg didnt exist back then
  2. seriously, it's a physical impossibility
  3. list the games that do this and when they do it
  4. drugs are bad
  5. stay in school
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Arkhan
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Re: Is there a limit on the storage of a Hu-card?

Post by Arkhan »

The only way you would be hearing music while the game is loading is if the music is PSG / ADPCM like Nodt said, or if the "loading" is actually just the screen fading out and going to something else all withing the same code space.

also were you playing and experiencing this on real hardware, or in an emulator? Never trust an emulator!

(unless it says Mednafen)
HOW I MINE 4 FISH!?1/1
RegalSin
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Re: Is there a limit on the storage of a Hu-card?

Post by RegalSin »

Lets go back to the original idea. We want to load a game from a Hu-Card like a CD, while at the same time we can load data from the cd itself. Lets say.


Stage is loaded from Cd, but the sprites is stored in Hu-card. When game load, it loads the
stage like normal into memory( lighting fast ), then load sprites from Hu-card. Also ( PSG / ADPCM ) Mod/midi is also loaded.

I was reading the PCE has absolutely no RAM, From a hu-card ( like a NES, Genesis ) the PCE is reading directly from the card. I understand the backgrounds, could be drawn on screen, along with arithmatic values.

Back to my idea. Lets say ( based on me reading documents ) the Hu-card rom limit, is 512, and thus a arcade card is actually 4X512KB=2MB. ( the following is thoery ) We can setup the Hu-card to read one 1Gig rom as 2000X512. I am only assuming the PCE has a limit of 512, unless it has to do with Mappers ( as somebody mentioned ) , and we don't need crazy methods.

The point that I am leading to releasing the game. I want to make a Hu-card game, and I want it to eqaul the same value as a CD-rom game in every aspect. This way we can get rid of any loading errors, and complications with CD-rom.

Right now I am understanding when the PCE draws a image ( Pcx file ) on screen, it can only seem them as a single Pixel. Meaning this is going backwards into pong. If I have a sprite image ( lets say Terry from Fatal furry, or Strider Hyru, or even giant drunken Master, ) the PCE does not even care about what the size of the image is but it's position and display.
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